Who wants to live forever?
Queen ably sung the question in the movie Highlander about a man who could not die. People like Aubrey de Gray and Ray Kurzweil continually prod the skeptics with "why not live forever?" And even a relative unknown like me has fictionally asked the question from the point of view of those who can actually make the choice.
This essay is inspired by a news article you might find interesting, though not ultimately satisfying. The key is that people [outside of science fiction] are starting to seriously talk about the practical implications of immortality. As we get closer to the "break even" point, you can count on this gaining mind share. But it’s anyone’s guess where people will split on the issue. Having done a significant amount of research on this for my last novel, Eight Immortals, I’m going to venture a few educated guesses.
For those of you who are still skeptical about whether this will even be an issue, consider that Clinical/Medical/Practical Immortality (the kind where treatments keep you alive) isn’t so far away, at least when counting life-spans (1 to 2) instead of years (50 to 150). Historically, we added about 1 year to the average individual life-span for every 50 years of scientific progress. Last century, it was one year for every ten, approaching one for every five in the near future. As that rate improves and accelerates, at some point, we’ll add at least one year of life expectancy every calendar year, meaning the end target life-span increases even faster than we get old. That’s called the "break-even" point, because someone alive at that point could theoretically stick around long enough to live forever, even if immortality isn’t actually available at her birth. I may or may not live to see that point. But assuming it’s possible at all, my children almost certainly will.
The most painfully obvious question politicians and bioethicists need to answer is that if we all live from 120 years to forever and the birth rate outpaces the death rate (more than now), where do all the people go? The science fictional answers run the gamut. But we know it will be solved one way or another, for better (perhaps into space) or for worse (perhaps war or oppression). How, What and When are pretty much up to science and business, to the extent we don’t interfere. The more important questions left for us regular folks to consider now are the Who and Why questions of immortality. And if we don’t answer those, we’ll likely be at the whim of those who do.
Will we choose to live forever?
It’s implicit in these discussions that people don’t want to die. They’re scared of death, that this life may be all we get. And why not live forever? There’s nothing implicitly wrong with it. So the natural answer for the vast majority of people is "damn right."
But I know plenty of elderly that have had their fill of life and even the Atheists are comfortable with death. I think a lot of it depends on the quality of the indivual’s life, both then and in their predicted future. Even today, people will allow or choose to end their lives under certain conditions. Imagine if you’re 200 and everyone you love has died, or you’re in incurable pain (not terminal, but awful). Imagine if you choose to sign up for war, or you’re a firefighter. You may choose mortality for your own reasons or put yourself at risk for a greater good. I’m not judging any of these decisions, but people who say that everyone they know would choose immortality might not know enough people.
So you want to live forever. Can you afford it?
Consider the rising cost of insurance today. Even if we solve that completely, insurance only works because not everyone gets sick. We spread the risk. But with something as likely as death (100%), we can’t count on any sort of insurance to pick up the tab. At best, we’ll have something like a 401k plan, where we pay ahead and hope for the miracle of compounded interest to save us — and if you watched Frontline this week, you’d doubt even that.
Who wants to work forever?
That’s the more likely question, unless you have enough natural wealth to support your continued addiction to life. And if you think it’ll be a cheap one-time pill, you don’t know drug companies. Because we can assume that those who want to keep living will pay any price (whatever they have) to stay alive, the laws of supply and demand simply won’t apply. If someone is willing to pay $1M a year to stay alive, why should you be able to pay only $100?
In the free market, even with an incentive to keep you alive and paying forever, you may be out-priced and die. Or, perhaps, we’ll see a 10% or 50% yearly tithe to Pfizer and Merck, a sort of flat-rate tax on life. But there’s still the issue of draw-down vs. accumulation of wealth over time. If you’re not above the break-even wealth, then eventually, you’re toast.
What would society be like, if immortality isn’t free?
This single issue could push either Capitalism or Democracy over the edge. As things currently stand, we’re likely to see two classes of people emerge: immortals, and the rest of us. With sufficient (break-even) wealth, say, $10 million 2006 dollars, wealth and power will generally grow over time. For the rest of us, our meager savings will inevitably draw down, the costs of simply living increasing exponentially with each extended year. And since we’re so easy to produce and contribute relatively less with our 80 years than someone with, say, 500, the overall value of our lives will continue to be cheap. People will continue to be expendable, exploitable, and utterly repressible.
Is that sustainable?
If there’s one thing people will tend to revolt over, it’s certain death. My guess is we poor mortals would eventually revolt, unless the powerful can instill hope that that we have a viable route up (the lottery? fame? IPO?), or convince us that we simply don’t want to live forever, or otherwise scare us into submission. If the rat race for individual wealth becomes more a scramble for life than lifestyle, just imagine what kind of cut-throat society we’ll be.
What about Religion?
It’s much more likely we’ll see new religious movements emerge, ones which will praise the virtues of natural death. Some might have to split a few hairs if they’re "pro-life" for birth and "pro-death" at the end, of if they deny elective euthanasia to escape pain but claim a moral imperative to make room for new life. How far can that hypocrisy be pushed before people understand that morality will have (or has already) taken back seat to powerful cynical interests?
But playing along, one can argue that if the soul exists, then we’re already, in a sense, immortal. Are we not violating "God’s plan" by not dying on cue? I’m not just limiting this to Christianity. If re-incarnation exists, with or without karma, are we not abandoning our pursuit of long-term spiritual growth by ignoring the natural cycle of life, death, and rebirth? Might we not spiritually stagnate as a species if we can and do live forever?
Cynical motivations or not, these are valid and difficult questions, which only makes it more likely we’ll be divided and manipulated by those in power for their own ends (see Gay Marriage, Abortion, Prayer in Schools). And lest we not forget that one of the origins of religion was to answer the very question "what happens when we die?" then organized religion may find itself in direct opposition to immortality out of sheer self preservation. Which force will win? And with what kind of fight?
Do Immortals even need religion?
The flip-side of all this is that in reality, given a broader-based expansion of life-expectancy, we might actually grow up for a change and take responsibility instead of pushing problems off on our kids. Whether any of the above spiritual ideas are "true," we’re certainly born without much innate knowledge or wisdom. Whatever we have right now is learned. So given 1000 years, might we not learn enough to actually answer some of those age-old questions too? Who are we? What are we meant to do? If a tree falls in the woods…?
Where does it lead, in the end?
There’s a common trait I’ve noticed among people who seek immortality (beyond avoiding the fear or futility of death). They tend to want control over other natural processes too, usually via science, technology, and not necessarily to the detriment of nature and the "lesser" beings — Extropian and Granola aren’t mutually exclusive, as long as we humans are exempt. And control over death is not even the ultimate goal. The ultimate is control over reality, over the limitations of life that cause us to suffer and need and want. So given enough time, the Immortalists, I believe, would see us evolve to become like the Gods we always imagined, powerful enough to engineer stars and build mountains with our minds. That may very well be our destiny.
My only hope is that by the time we’re that powerful, we have enough wisdom to match. Because I’m certain that if we had such power today, we’d all retreat into our own solipsistic worlds out of sheer necessity. It’d be too easy to destroy each other on a whim.
On the other hand, the upside of immortality is fairly bright. If we can finally figure out how to share, then a population of thousand-year-olds might have a much better view of the value and meaning of life. I mean, if it takes 1000 years to make a world-class citizen, then the loss of even one such person is significant. We might even get to the point where we treat people as more valuable than buildings, artifacts, and commodities, like oil.
Now that is something I could really look forward to.

Comment by Ted — May 22, 2006 @ 8:41 pm
This may not be relevant to your main point, but adding one year to life expectancy with each calendar year may not be as easy as it sounds. Physician and SF writer Chris Lawson crunched some numbers on mortality statistics, and published this paper; see page four, in particular.
Comment by avi — May 22, 2006 @ 9:30 pm
Thanks. That’s really interesting. It would also be interesting to re-do these stats for 10 or so samples over the past 3000 years. I’ll bet that the exponential increase in life expectancy due to scientific progress can help flatten the exponential increase in probality of death with age.
Basically, I think the exponential function in the paper is missing an exponential divisior that accounts for technological improvements as a function of time. For example. f(age)=1.118age becomes something like f(age,time) = (1.118age) / (1.xxxtime).
And it is very likely that for the near term, there is a functional upper limit on life span if the implicit divisor is around 1. It’s no wonder the divisor is missing since the function was created to fit to data. That’s why we’d need long-term historical data too.
Put another way, approaching the "break-even" point requires an exponential increase in the number of "causes of death" that can be cured each year. To the extent that there are still enough causes to kill us in the end (even if we cured the ones before), then yes, the "death curve" will cap us off at some fixed number. But the more causes of death we cure, the less likely there is a "next" cause to get us, so the death rate should drop off more like the Gorsky example in the paper.
Comment by Lauren — May 23, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
Anyone who says they’re not interested in immortality is a liar. As for how and when immortality will arrive, I think we’re still in the terrain of educated guesses. Will we keep repairing our bodies or find a way to translate our consciousness into machines? In the nearer term, I see a point where people will increasinly choose to freeze rather than die in anticipation of longevity/immortality technologies to come. In place of (or in addition to) life insurance, we will have cryo savings accounts where we save money for our eventual cold storage.
For a while now, I’ve been knocking around the idea of shooting a documentary on transhumanism so we should talk a bit more about this. I’d love to interview Kurzweil on the subject.
Comment by avi — May 23, 2006 @ 2:42 pm
Lauren, do you mean "not interested in the subject," or "not interested in living forever?" If the latter, then you may be calling me a liar.
I can also name a few people who won’t want to live forever, though we might stick around for a while to decide. How much life is enough is very individual and has probably more to do with quality of life than anything else, which has a lot to do with health, wealth, surviving loved ones, and so on. I don’t think the animal instinct to survive always wins out. If so, we wouldn’t have wars or heroic self-sacrifice or suicide or euthanasia.
Comment by Matt Kressel — May 24, 2006 @ 7:46 am
Avi says (hypothetically): “are we not abandoning our pursuit of long-term spiritual growth by ignoring the natural cycle of life, death, and rebirth?”
I would answer that no, we are not, if only because being immortal would still allow one’s soul to learn the lessons of existence. In Buddhist and certain Hindu cosmologies there are different realms of existence. In one realm, the “god” realm, beings do not die, they are provided with every comfort, and they lack nothing, yet this place of sensual pleasure does not forward their souls toward enlightenment, and so after an eternity, after they “use up” all their good karma, they are reborn back in the lower realms.
What I am saying then, at least religiously, is that it is pure hubris to think we can escape “God’s plan” (if there is such a thing) by any actions we do. Our immortality may be just part of our “soul plan,” if there is one. We cannot escape the medium we are drawn in.
Comment by avi — May 24, 2006 @ 8:49 am
Yeah. I’d only change (hypothetically) to (rhetorically). Assuming the spiritual assumptions are true, then I think it’s likely that the other realms would have their own distinct time — I could spend a day or an eternity in this universe and it might be just a blip in the next realm.
However, that doesn’t negate the fact that some people, in escaping death, will believe they’re escaping divine accountability for their actions — and that will have a huge effect on behavior.
Comment by Matt Kressel — May 24, 2006 @ 12:37 pm
Avi says: “some people, in escaping death, will believe they’re escaping divine accountability for their actions”
You don’t need death for people to escape accountability.
Comment by avi — May 24, 2006 @ 12:47 pm
Yes, Matt. But it’s been a while since anyone visited the mythological Heaven and Hell without dying first or being part-god in the first place.
My point is simply that for some people, fear of punishment (earthly, or in this case, an afterlife) is what keeps them in line. If those people became immortal and/or invincible, then we’d probably have a bunch of super villians running around.
Comment by Ted — May 24, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
Anyone who says they’re not interested in immortality is a liar.
Maybe the more relevant question is, how interested are you in immortality? Sure, if someone offered a pill that guaranteed eternal youth, most people would take it, figuring they could always commit suicide later if they got bored. But right now the best life-extension technique available is probably calorie reduction, cutting your food intake to little more than starvation level. How many people are willing to do that to increase their chances of living to see better life-extension technology? Even without going quite that far, how many people are taking a hundred supplements a day, like Kurzweil?
What if eternal youth requires a series of painful operations in which all your bone marrow is removed, and to maximize the chances of success, the procedure has to be done before you’re thirty? A lot of twenty-year-olds won’t feel sufficiently motivated to undergo that procedure.
It will be a long time (if ever) before immortality is easy. Until then, I expect there will be many people who — even if they can afford the necessary procedures — will decline to undergo them because the perceived cost/benefit ratio isn’t good enough.
Comment by Lauren — May 24, 2006 @ 5:35 pm
Anyone who posts on your blog before clicking “more” is an idiot. That’s me. Sorry, Avi. I didn’t mean to call you a liar. What I was referring to was the popular sanctimony about death being god’s will. It’s easy to claim that, if given the choice, you’d die after a “natural” life span when you don’t actually have the choice yet. As soon as the choice becomes available, I think most people will choose life, so to speak. Of course, this choice will be vastly complicated by the many intriguing living hells you and Ted envision. Let’s face it, most people can’t endure the denial of that extra donut for the sake of their health and fitness. They’re hardly going to voluntarily undergo painful bone replacement for some far-off promise of longevity. And the idea of working forever is for some a fate worse than death. Nevertheless, a lot of people will choose the longest life they can get for the simple reason that death is scary, unknown, and final. And all that sanctimony about “natural” life spans and god’s plan will crumble.
Comment by avi — May 24, 2006 @ 6:18 pm
I know you didn’t mean it. I guess I look at living wills for a modern analog to this kind of choice. People today say "don’t save me" and it’s not just from brain death–some say "don’t use any extraordinary means." So people can and do make that decision now.
Perhaps that’ll change if they know they might get another 1000 years instead of growing old. But even with immortality, if death exists at all, accidental or otherwise, then some loved ones will always die before others, sad as it is.
There’s a good deal of time between extended medical longevity and the time (if it’s possible) where we back ourselves up to new bodies all the time and never truly die. A lot can happen in that time. And the thing that worries me more than the sanctimony is the potential for cynical manipulation of people using the "natural" death argument.
Comment by Matt Kressel — May 25, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
Lauren says: “As soon as the choice becomes available, I think most people will choose life, so to speak.”
From Deuteronomy 30:19, “I put before you life and death, good and evil; therefore choose life so that you may live.”
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Comment by avi — May 25, 2006 @ 11:48 pm
Well, in that case, maybe it won’t be a choice at all. If the government goes through the trouble to make sure immortality is a right of everyone, then why should anyone get to choose to die? (I’m being rhetorical — I support euthanasia in many cases).
But choosing not to take the treatments is the same as suicide in that case, is the same as not eating. If we ban euthanasia and suicide, then why allow the horrible loss to society that is death?